At long last, there's a new album by the legendary reggae harmony trio, the Meditations. Called Ghetto Knowledge, it's just been released on Easy Star. So, on Tuesday, March 9, 1999, in New York City, I sat down with Meditation Ansel Cridland at the label's weekly party at the Black Star Bar to talk about the album. Meditation Danny Clarke was home in Phoenix readying for their upcoming tour, and Meditation Winston Watson was out of town (both Ansel and Winston live in the New York City area).

Ansel and Easy Star's E-Ski met me at the bar, then we moved to the cozy back room (peep it on EASY STAR VOLUME ONE) and settled down on the back-wall seating to chat. Ansel is perceptive and astute, engaging and open. As a product of youth-oriented America, I was especially touched by his referencing himself as "an Elder," the term used by many religions, including Rastafarianism, to connote seniority and wisdom. Despite his youthful appearance and manner, he clearly embraces and relishes this role, using it to teach, convey earned knowledge and wisdom, and carry the messages of reggae and Rastafari.

How does the reggae community regard the Meditations? Maybe this will tell you. All evening long and during the course of the interview--in contrast to the lively, bubbling scene in the front room--serene, reverential Rastamen as well as beaming, clean-shaven men made their way back to pay respects to Ansel. Unobtrusively and wordlessly, with slight nods and bows, they touched his fist, then touched their hands to their hearts, thus acknowledging him, the celebrated Meditations and their honored role in reggae's history.

Creating the album. Ansel worked on the album with bredren Danny and Winston for the past two years. He described the creative process, explaining that Winston and Danny would join him--flying in or at the end of a tour--and voice and work on several songs. He would then continue working on them; adding riddims, subtracting, rearranging, refining and so on. The result of this level of dedication is an album that plays like a greatest hits compilation, rather than just a new album.

Q: So that's why fans had to wait so long for this "new message from the Meditations?"

"Well yes, you always have to wait for message, like the TV. You have to take time to go out dere and work for message, to bring power to the people. And, as one of the tracks say, 'dreams always delayed.'"

The Meditations/Easy Star link up. How did you happen to link up with the Easy Star crew--initially for the song "Jah Music" on Easy Star Volume One--and now on the new album?

"The bredren that play in our band, his name is Kongo, otherwise Jeffrey, we call him Kongo as nickname, he is the one that really recommend Easy Star. He say that them would like one song from us. Then Michael (Easy Star's Michael G.) get in touch and I tell him that,'all right, I'll come down dere and hear what you have to say.' Go by the apartment and we sit there for a while and discuss and I say 'OK, I'll do it for you.'"

Q: What was it that made you decide to say yes, a particular vibe?

"Me say they are young in the business, y'know? Young and I like dem vibes--you can talk to them, you can meet with them. But them other record companies, they talk on the phone now. Can't see them and ya don't want to do business ya can't see them. Very hard. When you do business with people--when you can talk to them and meet them-- a better relationship. See what them all about. When I look into and say, 'Well, these bredren is young ina business; they will do more for the business than the other whole set ever done.' A lot of them (other labels, producers, etc) just see reggae as tax write-off.

"For artists now, them can't create nothin' new again. It become not a creative style. Time ago, make your song, make your riddim, put your mark on it, seen? But dem start puttin' out songs with 6, 7, 8 men pon a riddim. Everything ready-made now. Ina the music business now, dem say a man will buy a song quicker now
if he hears a riddim before, say from way back. Something familiar to him. So the old-time thing they recycle and recycle over and over. But not good for the artists comin' in."

(Here, E-Ski says that's why Easy Star's mission and motto is "Creating new classics in reggae--writing original music and creating new riddims and taking the time to do so.")

"When I hear about Easy Star and I see what them all about, y'know, give me more courage to meet with them. Because it's where I'm headin' (and) they are headin' in. 'Cause I would bury my dreams and all my hopes and say, like 'I'm wasting my time.' But seein' them now, and seein' what them dealing with, it uplift my creative mood, role and all my hope."

The album's sound. Some of reggae's most illustrious stars--Sly Dunbar, Aston "Family Man" Barrett, Theophilus Beckford, Sky Juice, as well as the late Rolando Alphonso's son, Noel--perform on the album. While some digital instrumentation is used, one of the album's true joys is its full, rich, pristine sound--the sound of the Golden Age come back again within a contemporary context. It exemplifies Easy Star's mission: original classic sounds, played by real musicians. I asked Ansel his feelings about recording with real musicians, rather than computerized riddims.

"Well, first of all, I never like the computer when it come in, just didn't like it. Go into studio, you have a 5-6 men or so at same time, so have five, six men's ideas. Each man add someting. His flavor. So now, is computer using one man idea, seen? So is one man create it. If one man create, the music cannot be sweet."

On Sly. "'Im will always be on top. Go ina studio, do "Woman is Like a Shadow," maybe takes 'im 2-3 hours to do. 'Im spent the whole time doin' all a different versions. All to get the one!"

The album's title. The inspiration for the title, GHETTO KNOWLEDGE, which dovetails with "Ghetto is a College," Danny's moving and beautifully voiced song. How did you get the inspirations for the album title?

"Well, we learn everything ina da ghetto, y'know? If you want to learn ina da Ghetto how to love your brothers and sisters, it show you dat. If you want to learn to fight, it show you. It show you everything. You come outta da ghetto, it's like you been through a college already. How to move, how to treat people, how to meet people, how to move around people. it's a college already. University? You don't go to university, be a scientist to make bombs, kill people. We people come outta the ghetto, we live it, we feel it. And we know nuff people don't want to hear about Ben Johnson Day. Ben Johnson Day? Is the hard life. Is a Thursday, when all you can find to eat is a little turned cornmeal and ya blend it down with little milk. What reggae all about--life. reggae bring that out cause the music tell you how to live with each other--the whole thing is society, and brings the world as it is."

Bob Marley and Blackman Redemption. On the album, the group sings a cover of Marley and the Wailer's' "Blackman Redemption." There's a history here: Bob Marley, having heard of the Meditations, asked them to sing harmonies on three songs--including this one--in studio and with Lee Perry producing. I asked Ansel about this song's inclusion.

"Is nice to redo it for Bob. 'Im put a big push on for the Meditations."

"The Father choose a man sometime, who 'im call upon to deliver certain message.There's nothin' you can do to stop it. 'Im call on Bob in that time and Bob deliver so much message to the people, y'know? So you'd have to see him as another Moses, y'know, who bring certain thing to the people dem. Everyone is a messenger, but there are one that the Most High call upon and put certain thing on more. Bob come special, never another Bob."

Lee Perry. Since the Meditations worked with Perry, any observations on "Scratch?"

"Well, me watch him during that time with Bob, and learned a lot. The way him put together the harmonies, the way him work when arranging. Working with him, you'd do song, then again, voice and musicians. Sometimes a mistake, you do something wrong.You do again. When you hear the record, ya can't believe! 'im leave the mistake! 'Cause 'im like the mistake, so he leave it! He did so much work to promote so much people."

Influences and inspirations. Several tunes on the album are done in fine '60s harmony group style: a cover of Curtis Mayfield's "Do Be Down," "Excited," Ansel's Impressions-flavored love song, and Winston's sublime "Living On the Edge," voiced in his amazing falsetto. What groups/singers inspired the trio, and how did they came to do the Curtis Mayfield tune?

"The R&B music was a big influence pon us in Jamaica. Every group that you can think pon in the 60s that born and come up--Impressions, Drifters, Temptations. Ya' mon. R&B and R&B singers is a big influence pon we West Indian people a very long time and Curtis Mayfield dominate Jamaica bad, bad, bad. If you think pon all the groups down dere, everybody redone a Curtis Mayfield song, y'know? From way back--Slim Smith, Pat Kelly, Heptones--you name, all those back groups do it.'

The great harmony groups. Before and during reggae's "Golden Age," there were many Jamaican hamony groups. Clearly, it's a form that demands great dedication. Nonetheless, harmony groups flourish in contemporary R&B but not--with the possible exception of Morgan Heritage--in contemporary reggae. What happened to the great harmony groups and why don't we see more groups coming up?

"All the great groups you see, the thing perish! Since them start with the versions that put 6, 7, 8 men on a riddim, y'understand? Like, I am an original singer now from way back now. They would use my riddim now and come up and put the younger youths dem on it--dem think the younger youth would sell the music more. I don't know how it start, but even in the record stores today, if you put out a song now, the record stores telling you that have to put more men on the riddim 'cause people, the djs(selectors), come in dere and not buy just one song on one riddim. It's not good--for the artist nor the promotor--'cause the whole thing just a dub plate! 'Cause when a song come out with only one person (or group) on it, more valid to the artists, the promotor, 'cause that song is recognized as that individual(s)--is your song! When all different men is on it, you never know! And y'know when it become borin'? Like a few years ago, dem have a riddim (here Ansel "sings" a riddim), and that song, well every artist comin' pon stage singin' on that same riddim! Become foolish!

"So what kind of money now for a group? Have to make more people on your songÔs riddim. Workin' and creatin' become hustling, selling. So them stop payin' attention to the groups dem, seen? So, instead give the groups dem courage, it discourage dem."

"In America I see a lot of'mix-up.' Youths are confused and into materialistic things them think will give security and self-confidence. But self-confidence is what you have inside you. They get lied to by the system, get disappointed and turn to drugs, guns, wildness. The world is a big community; as the bigger ones, we're responsible for the smaller ones. If we show them to love and respect themselves, they'll love and respect others.

Jah Music, Great Tribulation. I asked Ansel about the messages of "Great Tribulation," "The Police," and particularly, "Jah Music"--a tune written in 1981, but not released because he thought it too powerful for the times. Though set to a bouncing beat, the song implores that reggae not be taken "just for dancing pleasure," and aptly describes it as the music that "breaks the racial barriers, children." I asked him to explain why he thought the song too strong back then, and why he thinks reggae possesses a special, unifying quality (note: I'm a White American of ethnic descent).

Jah Music. "Upon the death of Bob Marley, and after, guns shootin', all fightin', and abusin' the music. Nuff young youths fight and curse onstage--dem fight to entertain. If ya want to do that, well go see Holyfield vs.Tyson. Nuff of them want to hear and sing about sex, slackness and thing. Them don't want to educate, seen?

"As an Elder I would say you have to spread the message, and pass it on the the youths. Now, nuff people just go for the beat in the music and don't listen to the words, but the words are saying something very important. I would advise people to pay attention to the words, 'cause the music tell you how to live with each other. Music is a different thing that Jah inspire us with. If you frustrated, music make you happy, music can bring people together. Sports and music, them a two things bring people together. Yesterday, I don't know you. Tonight, we sit side by side, talk. Tomorrow, if I see you on street, wave and say hello. Why? The music."

Great Tribulation. "It tell what the struggle is all about. Life hard. Selassie said 'Every man shall labor for them food, if you don't labor, you have to die.'"

The Police. "First time I come into this country, I was going to rehearsal with a man and one of my Meditations. Just as we pull up to the place, a car pull up. A policeman take out him badge and looked at everyone in the car--my first time here, Brooklyn 1977! We get out, he jump on me and just spin me around on the car and say 'put your legs apart' and start beating my head, licking my shoulder. Me say 'Officer, why you do this to me' and him say 'don't talk.' Other officer come over--him say sorry for what happened--some people down the road fit my description. Them just must learn about people, work for peace."

What an introduction to America! Any other impressions when you first came here?

America and Jamaica. "First came to America from Bermuda, first tour time of 'Woman is like a Shadow.' Bermuda, they love so much want to kidnap Meditations. Thought 'America a paradise,' then couldn't believe my eyes when set foot pon, look pon how really is! Not really free here, can't go outside, pick akee off the trees. Write better songs in Jamaica--can relax a yard. Better vibe."

On tour. "Singing on stage is having fun. Always put me in a different mood. We've toured and have a big following in Europe: England, Amsterdam, Belgium, France and Italy. Three years ago we went to Puerto Rico, don't know nothin' about Spanish, but see couple Rastman in audience! Lots of White people been supporting us, and you pray for that, but also your own people too, and not enough Black people in some places. Went to Rochester, N.Y. two years ago--two shows a night sold out--but maybe five Black people there. Asked them why not more people, dem say didn't hear about and didn't promote in their places."

The future of Reggae. When dealing with reggae, the major labels have a poor track record. In the course of asking Ansel about reggae's future, I mentioned Island Records, a label with a pedigree (Marley) and ongoing reggae relationships. I also noted that they too have dropped their fair share of artists.

Chris Blackwell, founder of Island Records. "Well, Island Record Chris Blackwell did love Bob Marley, seen? And he do a lot for Bob. Of all the people involved in reggae, no one know the business like Chris Blackwell. You can break it if you put money into it. Reggae carry the message, it bring you joy and happiness. Difference between reggae and Hip Hop, R&B music? The language we talk like a 'Broken English', we call it that, y'know? So for the people up here, America, the youths up here, dem like rock music and R&B, understand more what dem saying, and take away more. When Island was promotin' Bob Marley, Chris Blackwell make sure have the words of what Bob singin' on the back of the album so for you to hear the song, look at the lyrics. You read it, catch a little quicker. And in each and every magazine, 'im plant Bob in dere. Another part of marketing."

Yes, Blackwell promoted reggae well. But the recent Grammy Awards telecast--as is the case every year--treated reggae shabbily. Seeing Lauryn Hill perform was positive though-- her band included reggae musicians and her stage set featured Ethiopian angel art and landscapes. Maybe her success and reggae-influenced tunes will help popularize the music.

Lauryn Hill. "Daughter Lauryn Hill use dynamic words, tell her life story about ghetto runnings--it creative and getting you thinking. People who have the power can talk about important things and bring more power to the people. And in the beginning, it maybe only take one person to free them, to teach them and to do this, seen?"